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Oh Lordy What Have I Bought?

Tow Itch
Tow Itch
Dandy Expert

Posts : 3184
Join date : 2011-06-20
Location : Leigh Gtr Manchester

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Post by Tow Itch on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 5:23 am

Dear All

For a while I've fancied the concept of a 3 Way Fridge.
Possibly being stuck on electric hook ups at punitive rates at times or just the ability not to be tied.
Sad fact was you are looking at £160 plus with occasional special offers at £140 plus.
2nd hand might have appealed but £100 or £110 plus in a couple of ebay auctions and I failed to see the point in buying second hand even before my well known faith in ebay sellers.
Then it appeared on Gumtree. Local so I could see it and not have to pay delivery.
The downside (as I thought) £100, but it was a 2** Freezer!
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Frozen food. Ice cream. Ice. Even Ice cold beer, brilliant.
Suitable saving not seen a new one for under £400.
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Virtually flawless, I bought it.
Why? It's ruddy humongous. At slightly over 1/8th of a cubic meter it's over twice the size of an electric coolbox.
Where on earth will I carry it?
Doh seduced by a toy.
Hope you'll all want ice in your drinks at the Christmas meet.
What do you mean I won't need it in winter.
It's bought it will be getting used. I'm looking forward to the gas consumption, to see how well it functions as a background heater.

Kevin.





Eilis
Eilis
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Age : 54
Location : Lowestoft, Suffolk

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Post by Eilis on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 5:29 am

nice to see i'm not the only one that buys stuff and then realises i don't need it lol

i too have been thinking of a fridge for camping but the price puts me off, will prob get one in the end tho Smile
mike
mike
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Posts : 5172
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Age : 71
Location : north east lincs

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Post by mike on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 5:35 am

Perhaps you should change your user name to "ice man" Very Happy if your bringing it you may as well fill it Nancy likes Thornton's ice lollies,i like walls vienetta
Helen
Helen
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Post by Helen on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 9:04 am

Ours takes up half the boot space Kevin Surprised hence the roof box Wink

We have only used ours 3 times as we haven't done much camping this year and are still getting used to it..........
This time I only managed to freeze a bottle of Olive oil and my Coke didn't need ice putting in it as there was already bits in the cans What a Face
Cazz
Cazz

Posts : 2052
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 44
Location : Staffordshire

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Post by Cazz on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 9:47 am

Kevin, that's such a good buy, I love ice cream. We once looked at getting a camping freezer but was put off by the price. Hope you find lots of things to freeze, especially in December. A snow ball store perhaps, lol.

We bought a three way fridge in 2003, it's fantastic. That can freeze a few ice cubes as well.

It is big to transport, that's why we've got a campervan. It does take up half the back seat of the car, then there is the gas bottle. Shocked

Speaking of gas, what is the burn rate please? Very Happy
Helen
Helen
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Post by Helen on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 9:54 am

We haven't used ours much yet but it doesn't appear to use much gas at all even though we always forget to turn it off on cold night's and end up freezing everything. It would probably use less if we were as on the ball as Mike, he will give you a few tip's on how to save yourself some gas.
mike
mike
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Posts : 5172
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Location : north east lincs

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Post by mike on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 10:14 am

helen wrote:We haven't used ours much yet but it doesn't appear to use much gas at all even though we always forget to turn it off on cold night's and end up freezing everything. It would probably use less if we were as on the ball as Mike, he will give you a few tip's on how to save yourself some gas.


Use electric ime still on my first 6kg bottle from 18 months ago Laughing
Cazz
Cazz

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Location : Staffordshire

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Post by Cazz on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 10:28 am

Very sad this, but needs must. I worked out that our fridge running on high on gas for 24 hours will cost, on our current gas bottle price, an amazing 48p. Of course turning it down or off will cost less.

Electric hook up costs far more than that, therefore by using gas and a leisure battery, we are saving a small fortune.

Winter camping is a different kettle of fish. I need to redo the calculations on the propex heater against electric. Shocked Very Happy
mike
mike
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Post by mike on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 10:45 am

cazz wrote:Very sad this, but needs must. I worked out that our fridge running on high on gas for 24 hours will cost, on our current gas bottle price, an amazing 48p. Of course turning it down or off will cost less.

Electric hook up costs far more than that, therefore by using gas and a leisure battery, we are saving a small fortune.

Winter camping is a different kettle of fish. I need to redo the calculations on the propex heater against electric. Shocked Very Happy

The cheapest way to go is a basic site without electric,the thing is these sites are the exception to a certain extent now,when i started they where the norm,i now want my electric with the luxury's that brings,oven,heater,electric kettle,laptop,cooling fan,fridge,plus loads of things i have probably forgotten Very Happy,can manage without showers on site but did a spell early in the year on a site with no toilets,doubt that will ever happen again apart from anything else he had the cheek to charge me for a toilet tent.
Cazz
Cazz

Posts : 2052
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 44
Location : Staffordshire

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Post by Cazz on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 11:04 am

I know what you mean Mike, perhaps we are a bit tight, or should that be we go with out things in order to keep the camper and car going.

We tend not to get a tv or net book signal where ever we camp, so straight away the running costs are reduced.

I think it's wrong when places charge for awnings and toilet tents, especially when facilities aren't there, that is cheeky.

We stayed at a campsite before where awnings were extra, so we took the camper and a tent, used the camper in the day whilst out and slept in the tent. That set up occured no extra charges savings us about £20 Very Happy
Tow Itch
Tow Itch
Dandy Expert

Posts : 3184
Join date : 2011-06-20
Location : Leigh Gtr Manchester

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Post by Tow Itch on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 12:23 pm

Dear All

Yes Cazz the gas consumption 450g max to 3thirty something (it's in the link) from just under twice to 11/3rd that of a gas fridge.
I was quite despondent about that but reading Cazz's stuff has provoked me into doing the calculations.
Worst option on a 6kg bottle about £ 1.30 per day a bit rich, but not the end of the world.
Best option using a bottle filler and autogas. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
In that case I'm looking at less than 60p day to freeze or 45p for very cold fridge.
Also if I choose to use electric then I'm using a more substantial base load than a cooler. I help justify the cost of the hookup.
I'll bring the ice the lemons and the limes, who's bringing the gin and tonic.
Would that be a further money saving use Cazz?

The bulk is still a bit overawing!

Kevin.
Cazz
Cazz

Posts : 2052
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 44
Location : Staffordshire

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Post by Cazz on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 12:45 pm

Hi Kevin, I will look into the adapters. I shall get googling tonight. Very Happy

Regarding the bulk, at least you can put things in it and you'll have to get yourself a trailer, mmmmm lol!
Ali
Ali

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Age : 62
Location : Wirral

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Post by Ali on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 2:49 pm

I bought a Dometic camping 'fridge on Mike's recommendation as being quiet when running. It's fabulous - not a sound from it - as any whirring etc drives me mad and I wouldn't be able to sleep. only downside is the size - it sits on top of the sink so can't use that - but it's worth it to have cold cider Very Happy ( and meat of course!)
Cazz
Cazz

Posts : 2052
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 44
Location : Staffordshire

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Post by Cazz on Sat 20 Aug 2011, 11:22 pm

Ok, this is very interesting, I've been googling and these adapters seem to be a very grey area.

That aside I've done some calculations and have worked out that if we were to buy 13kg of gas, it would give us a saving of around £1 per refill based on the UK average selling price, excluding travelling to a LPG station and purchasing the adaptor, therefore it would work out dearer.

We buy Flow Gas which is cheaper than Calor Gas and Wayne also gets staff discount where he works. Oh Lordy What Have I Bought? 2170595768

So how I worked it out. 1kg Butane is roughly 1.95 litres.
13kg X 1.95 litres = 25.35 litres needed
25.35 litres X 75p/litre = 1,901.25p divide by 100 = £19.01

Our last 13kg refill cost £20 with discount only a couple of months ago. Oh Lordy What Have I Bought? 2792229418

(Notes- I realise LPG is a mix of butane and propane. It's also.recommended that a cylinder is only filled to 80%. I've done my workings on 13kg's of butane.
I can work out the same based on a 50 50 mix of butane and propane if requested).
Tow Itch
Tow Itch
Dandy Expert

Posts : 3184
Join date : 2011-06-20
Location : Leigh Gtr Manchester

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Post by Tow Itch on Sun 21 Aug 2011, 1:33 pm

Cazz

I think it's extremely generous of you to say the adaptors are a grey area.
I was checking the connection on a fork lift the other week. On those cylinders liquid LPG will be expelled from an open valve.
I very nearly caught myself out. The position on refilling is somewhere between against accepted procedure and possibly illegal.
(Everyone) If you don't quite get the above statements this is not the toy for you.

I work on a quite high (or possibly low) inconvenience to cash ratio I'll not beat myself senseless to save thrupence ha'penny.
The adaptor is clearly not the tool for you because of the price you can buy at but:
Is your cylinder 13Kg? Calor tend to do bastard sizes, e.g. They do 15Kg butane everyone else (and there are more butane players) does 13Kg.Check out Chorley bottle gas who sell "Flo Gas" to public at £20 at the moment in a 12Kg bottle. Either Flo Gas' pricing to the garden centre or Wayne's discount is a bit errant. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If you want cheap look at Cheshire Bottle Gas [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] £ 17.50 for 12Kg . Though I suspect the cheapest will be near you at Lister Gas they don't advertise small cylinders but their 47Kg propanes are under £50.
Obviously though there is no economy in driving 10 miles to save £2 on a bottle of gas.
The cost of your gas is majorly down to your cylinder size. 13kg (or 12Kg) is far cheaper than 6Kg which is far cheaper than 3.9Kg. Chorley Bottle Gas has a £2 difference between 6Kg and 12Kg. Cheshire Gas is 50p cheaper to buy 12Kg than 6Kg.
It's just the inconvenience for most campers to carry large bottles.
How do you go on with a low gas levels, do you lug another large bottle. Still now you might just choose to replace on the road if a few Flo Gas suppliers price like Chorley BG.
Calor Gas has most small cylinder gas purchasers over a barrel and prices accordingly.
Autogas is a more freely traded product but your unlikely to be able to use the cheapest sites as these are gas depots not fuel stations and they know exactly what your up to and it's contrary to their core business. Though you'll avoid punitive Calor prices in out of the way locations and with a further adaptor it would be useful in continental Europe.

Kevin.
Cazz
Cazz

Posts : 2052
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 44
Location : Staffordshire

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Post by Cazz on Sun 21 Aug 2011, 10:35 pm

Another point worth noting, the VAT on bottled gas is 5% domestic use. Gas from the fuel station has VAT at 20%.

We have two gas bottles, before we go away I weigh them to check the level of gas is enough for our stay away. So far it's worked out that one runs out when we don't have the fridge with us, so we take the fridge bottle as a spare. That's the advantage of having the space in the campervan. Smile

The links are interesting regards price, it just shows how prices vary across the country. Where Wayne works is the cheapest in our area, even before his staff discount. A 13kg Butane retails at £24.99.

Tow Itch
Tow Itch
Dandy Expert

Posts : 3184
Join date : 2011-06-20
Location : Leigh Gtr Manchester

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Post by Tow Itch on Mon 22 Aug 2011, 11:56 am

Thought I'd already posted this but I must have exited after preview. However I've found more information.

Cazz

Wrt tax levels:In addition to differing Vat rate Autogas is also taxed as a road fuel. The Fuel Duty is presently 31.6 pence per Kg
(great stuff price in litres tax in Kg!)From 1st Jan 37.3p/Kg (the figures i had were from 2007 16.49 So a 91.63% increase in tax over 4 years 126.19% by next year.
Not to forget there is 20% Vat charged on that tax. In effect 31.6p/Kg X 120% (Vat) = 37.92p/Kg. So.
Bottle Gas Fuel: Cost of fuel X 105%
Autogas: (Cost of fuel + 31.6p) X 120%
Yet still the cost of Autogas comes in at £1.40 Kg. Cheaper than bottle gas all the way up to 47Kg (A touch large for camping)
13kg! Ah the penny finally dropped, your using butane. Not only that you mentioned butane several times.(You have the gas in an insulated van so butane is totally acceptable (Is the gas compartment in the insulated area?) I got confused with the bit about LPG [Autogas] being a propane butane mix.
I will learn to read at some point. Doh!....
This also makes the price charged for the gas more competitive, both Chorley bottled gas and Cheshire Gas charging £22.00

Kevin.
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HIDEHI

Posts : 152
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Age : 69
Location : Anglesey

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Post by HIDEHI on Mon 17 Sep 2012, 2:09 pm

mike wrote:
cazz wrote:Very sad this, but needs must. I worked out that our fridge running on high on gas for 24 hours will cost, on our current gas bottle price, an amazing 48p. Of course turning it down or off will cost less.

Electric hook up costs far more than that, therefore by using gas and a leisure battery, we are saving a small fortune.

Winter camping is a different kettle of fish. I need to redo the calculations on the propex heater against electric. Shocked Very Happy

The cheapest way to go is a basic site without electric,the thing is these sites are the exception to a certain extent now,when i started they where the norm,i now want my electric with the luxury's that brings,oven,heater,electric kettle,laptop,cooling fan,fridge,plus loads of things i have probably forgotten Very Happy,can manage without showers on site but did a spell early in the year on a site with no toilets,doubt that will ever happen again apart from anything else he had the cheek to charge me for a toilet tent.

Yes guys ehu is geting expensive, that is why we like the no frills sites as well as the ccc meets and there small sites, Rally on guys .
We are looking at the 3 way fridges but the weight and size could be a problem, i thought a 88mh battery with a 100 wat solar panel would keep a cool box going, jest for milk and vacpacked food stuff Idea Question and take the cool box with us on the days touring to save on leasure batery in dandy.
Cazz
Cazz

Posts : 2052
Join date : 2011-07-14
Age : 44
Location : Staffordshire

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Post by Cazz on Mon 24 Sep 2012, 10:04 pm

It would all depend on what power the panel put into the battery, and the draw from it. But running it in the day from the car whilst travelling is a good idea, as long as you don't burn more fuel making the extra power. What a Face

When we take the classic set up to the middle of a random field somewhere in the country, we usually just put water in the bottom of the coolbox and place a wet tea towel over the top of the food making sure the ends are well dunked. This works surprisingly well, but we do take vegetarian food for safety. Wink
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HIDEHI

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Post by HIDEHI on Mon 24 Sep 2012, 11:39 pm

Thanks for reply Cazz a few good ideas there

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