advice please

At present I do not own a Dandy but will in the near future.
I would expect a bit of renovation to be involved in what I do buy.

What are the points to look for before buying so I do not buy a pig in a poke.
I am a practical man with wood and trailer building skills.

it really depends on your requirements billy,
but i would say main things to check would be the suspension, the floor, the bed boards, walls and the pvc for holes/damage.
other than that theres nothing that can't be fixed with a rivet gun, some basic diy skills, space to erect dandy and once it gets to the stage where you may want to change furnishings a sewing machine.
lots of people on here have done bits and pieces such as changing suspension, recovering floor and a bit of interior design and from personal experience nickb and i have owned a '94 delta and now a '06 designer and i would say the 90's models are of a much better build quality as towards 05-07 was when riva dandy were struggling financialy and you can see the cost savings,
i just dont believe our designer (no matter how careful we are with it) will be in as good condition at 15/16 years old as our delta was at that age or helens early 90's designer is now

Billy wrote:At present I do not own a Dandy but will in the near future.
I would expect a bit of renovation to be involved in what I do buy.

What are the points to look for before buying so I do not buy a pig in a poke.
I am a practical man with wood and trailer building skills.

Any idea what model your after as they are a bit like tents,rated as x amount of berths something like the 4 or 5 berth may well sleep 4 or 5 people but 2 or 3 are more comfortable.We have the 6 berth for 2 of us and sleep separately so this meens both beds can be left made up all day and there is still plenty of seating to eat and relax.
Do you want an awning,if there are two reasonably fit adults then they are not as big a problem as some say and are worth the effort because of the no need to dry.
Whether you intend to camp all year or not go for fully insulated walls and roof any thing you camp in during hot weather will become warm as you will know with your tent,from experience i can tell you with a fully insulated one it will be cooler inside in hot weather.
Deciding what model you want first may extend the looking time but will save money and improve your experience,i wanted a 6 when we bought the delta but my wife thought they would be heavy to erect, when in fact with gas struts on the side walls i can lift them with one hand.

Sorry to be the one throwing questions at you but i find when its done to me it makes me consider things a bit more,which is good because i can be impulsive

mike

Have to say I love my designer, the bit of extra room we have is great, we can sit inside and eat too. Ours is fully insulated and has an underfloor heater and we do use it when not on EHU. I suppose it all depends on how many people are using it and what type of camping you want to do, we enjoy open fields without electric so ours is perfect for us, I would always say go for space, there are only two of us in what is supposed to be a 5 berth. Most people with DIY skills can put a Dandy right or change it to how you want it. Wood skills are great and if you do need to change bed boards its not a massive job. I would say check the floor isn't spongy, and check all of the trailer workings are okay and that the tyres are alright. All in all everything can be rectified on a Dandy but any problems should be taken into consideration with the price you are willing to pay. If you do want an awning then I would buy a Dandy with one as the price can be silly to buy at a later stage as they don't come up for sale that often and then you have to get the right one (colour and size) for your unit.

Depending on your location, if one comes up for sale in our area we could always go and have a look at it with you or for you

Hi, I have taken onboard all suggestions and comments and hope this may help for more ideas.
Mostly I camp when at a steam fair or vintage rally by myself as my wife apart from being a bad traveller has no interest in lumps of rusty iron but is happy for me to go and give her peace for the odd weekend.
I have been using a tent until now as I can pack the camping gear in my car and pull a trailer with my engine on.

I have decided I am getting old and no longer want to sleep in a tent but have no inclination for a caravan that will only be used a half dozen times a year by myself. So I have decided on a Dandy as I liked the look of them and the ease at wich they can be erected and I have the room at home to store one.

So, it will be for one adult with no awning requirted. I would be happy to travel for the right tent.
I have bought myself a Escort van that I can put a small engine into and pull the Dandy at the back.

Thanks to all for the comments and ideas. Billy.

Billy wrote:Hi, I have taken onboard all suggestions and comments and hope this may help for more ideas.
Mostly I camp when at a steam fair or vintage rally by myself as my wife apart from being a bad traveller has no interest in lumps of rusty iron but is happy for me to go and give her peace for the odd weekend.
I have been using a tent until now as I can pack the camping gear in my car and pull a trailer with my engine on.

I have decided I am getting old and no longer want to sleep in a tent but have no inclination for a caravan that will only be used a half dozen times a year by myself. So I have decided on a Dandy as I liked the look of them and the ease at wich they can be erected and I have the room at home to store one.

So, it will be for one adult with no awning requirted. I would be happy to travel for the right tent.
I have bought myself a Escort van that I can put a small engine into and pull the Dandy at the back.

Thanks to all for the comments and ideas.

i'd go for one of the bigger ones Billy even though you are on your own as without an awning if you are camping in chilier weather, you will welcome the extra space - or maybe that's just because i pack half the house and hate being cramped lol

Billy

Part of my answer depends on the nature of your engine.
If you have a mobile display (say small steam loco) and spend most of your day with that then I'd go with the advice about looking at at least a 4/5. True a 4 would be miles more comfort than a tent but look to your wants not just needs.
If you have something like a stationary engine where you may exhibit in front of where you camp then I might be more open to a 4 but with an awning. Yes I know you said you didn't want an awning but; The awnings on the green, orange and early brown Dandy's are not full width and can be up in under 15 Min's. The only help you need is for someone to hold the poles for less than 5 Min's.
This gives you a serviceable wind and rain shelter that you can sit in with the front rolled up.
From your introduction you say you have woodworking and trailer building skills. As you display an engine of some form I would guess metalworking skills as well. I sense that you may be in demand!
How much of a functioning unit do you want or how much of a project are you looking at?

Kevin.

Hi Kevin, Thanks for your input.

I restore and show stationary engines but with me pulling a Dandy they will be lighter petrol engines as diesels would be too heavy for my Escort to carry inside and pull the trailer.
You ask how much of a project I want......I would like something that is complete so I could make templates for parts I have to replace and towable home.

Weight is going to be a big factor in choice so I am willing to sacrifice some comfort for a lighter model. Then again it will only be an improvement from a tent so I will not know what I am missing.

Billy.

i think the 4/5 is the smallest i think and you could have a lightweight porch that could give that bit of extra room without the weight of the heavy pvc awning

i'm sure the others will correct me if there is a smaller dandy

A dart (dandy4) is the smallest available but there isn't that much difference in the weights to the 4/5.

Billy

Looked up Ford Escort Vans and saw they had payloads from 452Kg to 640Kg don't know where yours fits in nor where the pre maximum permissible train weight, relationships go in respect of trailer and vehicle weights.
The unladen weights of the 4, 41/2, and 5 only varied from 5, 51/2 to 6cwt about 250 to 300Kg. The minimum nose weights were only 25lbs. The weights of the early awnings weren't much at all.
Dependant on the relationship of towed weight to your all up train weight you can store up to 250Kg in the Dandy leaving the back of your van pretty clear for the stationary engine. Might even get away with even stashing a few engine ancillaries in there.

Kevin.

Hi Kevin, That is exactly as I have planned the project but with a wee bit less in the trailer.

My van is the Diesel non turbo ex Council store van with only 70 000 miles on it and a nice little tow vehicle. It actually drives better with a bit of weight in it or with a trailer on.

The engines I will choose from for being in the van weigh between 100kg and 150kg so as you say I will also have a small water pump to play with as well.

Thanks for time and effort. Billy.

Billy

I'd check on how things were defined before the current Maximum Authorised Mass and the Gross Train Weight.
i.e. a 300Kg trailer doesn't remove 300Kg off the Maximum Authorised Mass now so very much doubt it removes 300Kg off your Gross Vehicle Weight as your vehicle will be pre manufacturer defined limits.
Any genius know the rules?
[/strike] Try phoning Indespension 0845 3720 720 ( sorry I don't have the non 0845 number to hand) [strike]Don't bother the answer was bollQ£$.
We want to see you out with the Diesels. Only be able to run the petrol engines 1/3 as many hours for the same fuel spend.
You would only end up buying one of those conversions to run a petrol engine off Calor gas then with the weight of the gas bottle you would be no better off.
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Best Of Luck

Kevin. [strike]

Billy

Sorry you were supposed to have A line through the Indespension stuff
Because I tried them myself and their answer was pants. Obviously you cant go back to add the strike through line.
Sent a tech query to The Camping And Caravaning Club Instead.

Kevin.

Billy

As you have constructed trailers you may well have known this already but if not:



Dear ........

Thank you for your query.

Your query ID 1058 has now been closed.

Please see the notes below.

Friday, July 22, 2011 11:47:07 AM by iaing
Kevin. with modern vehicles it is usually easy to establish the various weights and limits as the manufacturers are obliged to publish them to ensure that no-one overloads their combination. With older vehicles this is not the case and unless a car maker took it upon themselves to make such limits available to the user there may not be a published limit such as a trailer towing limit or noseweight limit for the towbar.

For many years now there has been a standardised format on the VIN plate where the gross vehicle mass is first, gross train mass is second and the axle limits are the third and forth. If you deduct line one from line two you will have the vehicle's towing limit. As train mass is the combined weights of the loaded car and trailer once coupled up. The noseweight is part of the load on the car and is not counted as part of the trailer, it is the axle weight that counts.

I have attached a datasheet you may find helpful. Iain.




Kind regards,

Iain Geddes
Technical department.


techtalk



Now there should have been a nice logo showing that the message came from the camping and caravaning club.
So if my reading of this is correct if you have a Gross Train Mass you work off that, if not.
Then if not all you subtract from the Gross Vehicle Weight for the trailer is the noseweight.
So if it's a fully loaded (500Kg) Dandy. Then with a noseweight of 35Kg (7% of load) all your subtracting for the Dandy is 35Kg.
Get the Diesel engine out Billy.
Mines a pint if you get to Astle Park.

Oh there was nothing worth wile in the factsheet. In fact must send them a note they had the old width limit shown.

Kevin.

I didn't get a choice as mine was a freebie but I have the orginal invoice and it was purchased in 1982 and is a dandy 4/5 berth and built to order. I can't believe how well it has lasted. It has been well used as a family holiday home but the wear and tear is negligible. In fact the main damage was from mice that invited themselves and also the tyres had perished. (Wondered why we woke up lopsided one morning!).

so I would say the £1828.40 which it cost in 1982 has lasted well - shame about the awning which had to go because of the mice. So definately would try and get one with if you have the opportunity. It is a design classic.

Re the sampe, Same thing with tents, if it says sleep 6 it will really accommodate half that with luggage. This Dandy is perfect for just me! two at a push (in separate beds) and definately uncomfortable with the two kids.

steph

Hi Kevin, You have been busy on my behalf....thanks for that.

Astle Park...my favourite event..I have missed one 1000 Engine in the last 23 years.

Is this a show you attend?

Billy.

Billy

I am hoping to attend the traction engine rally 13th & 14th of August.
Either my friend might have been involved in a trade display or I might have been trying to lessen my costs by finding out if there was a vintage caravan and camper enclave.
All this is appearing a little academic as anytime we phone we can't seem to get an answer.
Obviously this is not the 1000 engine show which would be your main interest, just a mixed show.
1/2 the reason for looking at it is the fact we can't afford the mortgage required for multiple day access and camping at Pickering this year. £90 for two of us when we paid £40 or £45 last year.

Kevin.

Billy

Final I's Dotted And T's Crossed

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for your query.

Your query ID xxxx has now been closed.

Please see the notes below.

Tuesday, August 09, 2011 3:35:27 PM by iaing
Kevin, you are indeed correct, since April last year the maximum width for a trailer on a car has been 2.55 meters. That datasheet has not been amended since 2009 and is therefore incorrect in this matter stating 2.3 meters.
I have set the wheels in motion to have this corrected and this should happen with the next few days (I have already submitted the change document - it is now down to the system).
Thank you for taking the time to raise this matter with us.

Regarding the weight, from a prosecution perspective it is the axles that are weighed and the noseweight (though part of the total trailer mass) applies its load to the rear axle of the towing vehicle - as long as non of the axles are overloaded, nor the train mass exceeded and the driver's licence permits the weight then they will be legal.

Iain.

Kind regards,

Iain Geddes
Technical department.


techtalk

Tel: 02476 475282
Fax: 02476 475413

Kevin.