mike wrote: Caz1960 wrote: 
I know it's teaching your gran to suck eggs but thinking on the line of a smoke alarm I put my carbon Monoxide alarm up on the roof poles untill I was told NO! it goes on the floor as monoxide is heavy so by the time it reaches my alarm in the roof I would be dead
yep it is now on the floor
Think you have to consider it the same weight as air (not exactly but near enough),it can act as if its lighter when venting from a heater as it would be warm and that could tend to make it rise,but its gas and carbon dioxide thats heavier.It would concern me having it at floor level because any fresh air entering the dandy when its cold enough to use a gas heater would be cold air,this would tend to sink and could displace contaminated air and make it rise slightly,
Maybe consider mid height for a position,after always shouting the benefits of a detector we dont have them in the dandy as we never use a gas heater and dont cook with gas all that much,we do have them in the house.
mike
Not sure I will cover what the Fireperson said (that's fireperson in a completely non sexist way unlike the the baying slavering female element of the audience. Whose only disappointment was that the Fireman did not turn up in full uniform)
I'd say the instruction formed two parts.
The first being a simple illustration that barbecues are a bad idea in tents. This was illustrated by putting two CO alarms into a tent with the barbecue. The alarms went off within a few minutes. I don't think that a barbecue in a tent not being a good idea will come as a big surprise to anyone reading here. Some people have now become paranoid about barbecues yet the fireman had no qualms about barbecues used under canopies or even awnings as long as there was a throughput of air because opposing sides or the majority of the sides were open.
The second idea would be that you can use a CO alarm to cover risks that might occur from things that are considered benign equipment. We have underfloor heaters, some like caravans have gas powered fridges. These appliances should be sealed from exposing you to CO but just as with domestic appliances problems can occur thus you may choose to use a CO alarm. The CO alarms were dropped on the floor in the tent but it was mentioned that the CO would have a neutral buoyancy with the surrounding air. I see from above that there is some questioning of the placement of the alarms. Going back to my O Level chemistry the atomic weight of CO is 28 while the atomic weight of Nitrogen N
2 is 28 and Oxygen O
2 is 32 (nitrogen is 78% of the atmosphere and oxygen 21%. Both exist as molecules N
2 and O
2 the weights are the figures at the bottom of each element ) See:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Now at this point my O Level physics kicks in as I realise that the CO will be emitted as a hot gas possibly twice as hot or more as the surrounding air so
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Doubling the temp of the gas will not be raising the temp from 20C to 40C as we are referring to absolute temperature degrees Kelvin so room temp is 293K and the gasses emitted may well be at 600K or more meaning that the CO will be half as dense as the air or less. Tending to cause you to mount the CO alarm higher. I'd probably mount the alarm at a mid level as that is where you will be at sleep and airflow within the Dandy will disperse the CO anyway.
People have got desperately CO paranoid and are now swearing that they will not be cooking within their tent in future. The risks here were expressed in terms of fire risks where a Dandy has a fixed (stable) cooker and the PVC is fire retardant.
Not discussed by the fireman but you can get chronic CO poisoning with cookers you just generally need to be at altitude or be using liquid fuel stoves or both.Neither are particularly likely with a Dandy. Chronic low level CO poisoning is nasty though see.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] as always one of the best guides is
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Non stick pans: If you bought some cheap non stick pans to use in your Dandy then be aware that
if you heat the pans without contents inside then Heating of Teflon (polytetrafluoroethylene, PTFE, aka Fluon and Halon) above 300°F9150C) can cause Polymer fume fever (aka Teflon Flu). This causes a flu-like illness with chest tightness and mild cough about 4-8 hours after exposure and generally resolves in 48 hours.
If Teflon is heated past 450°F,(232C) the PTFE is broken down through pyrolysis creating different products that may cause acute lung injury.
You should never heat a Teflon coated pot or pan without water in it - on the trail or at home.
The dangers are acelerated in a confined space.
ShaunJUK wrote: Helen wrote:Okay ........ who is willing to do an informative thread regarding what we learned from the safety officer about camping and Carbon Monoxide.
We all had lots of fun at Woodhall but we we're also very very enlightened when it came to this important subject ..... someone really should pass on what we learned and the examples given and what to do in the event of emergencies regarding fire and Carbon Monoxide on campsites. I would but I am leaving soon for Wales but the sooner this is done the better ....... you could be saving someone's life just by passing the information on.
I have to go to work now but I will post a link to the government advice site
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
I don't know what the ratio of fire deaths as against CO deaths are in tents but I thought it a disgrace that CO poisoning isn't mentioned.
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