Dandy trailer tent diy insulation options and ideas

mike wrote:

cazz wrote:Mike, I'm watching closely and looking forward to your review on the performance. Also I thinks it's fab how are you are doing it for any one to achieve with basic tools and equipment.

As you are well aware I will need to do ours for colder camping as we did buy one without insulation, against strong advice, but what a find - a small price to pay.

Thanks cazz just need condensation weather in September,you see bet we dont get it

You can bet because you want it, it will be lovely and warm. We were camping in the campervan this weekend and we had condensation last night, it was like autumn

Latest update it was tested at the meet,did it work,dont know we never got any condensation any where even the windows so i cant answer,after touching the interior pvc then the table topper the latter was warmer to the touch, so i am going to have to go for it and do the other three bed ends ready for Christmas.

mike

Dear All

If you remember my alternative thoughts about an inner tent.
To recap my thoughts were that an inner tent would:
Stop the condensation problem.
As with a trailer tent increases insulation by. Stopping draughts.
Providing an air gap to insulate.
My "improved" idea was that an aluminium, or silver backed fabric would provide a better thermal barrier.
Now having visited Tent Valeting Service I can find even custom made inner tents at a reasonable price all should be great but......
I have seen various aluminium/silver fabrics.
I don't understand these, I don't understand what they do, their comparative performance, their suitability as a liner?
Those of you who understand fabrics can you help?
You don't even have to know about these specific fabrics, just ideas about who I should be speaking to would be an idea.
If you don't know how to frame the question google doesn't always provide the answers.

Kevin.

Do the silver/aluminium fabrics allow air through or would you find that in the mornings you have condensation inside the inner tent like you do in the little two man single skin tents sometimes due to the small area.

helen wrote:Do the silver/aluminium fabrics allow air through or would you find that in the mornings you have condensation inside the inner tent like you do in the little two man single skin tents sometimes due to the small area.

Helen

Oh it's normally me who sadly disappoints.
I was expecting so much more from you, the site guru on soft furnishings.
If I've only got the vaguest comprehension of this class of fabrics any ideas who to ask?

Kevin.

Kevin with the system i am using i have allowed in my mind for a small amount of condensation behind the insulation,that's why the insulation goes down between the pvc and bed frame,if i dont get any then that's even better,i dont see any way of guaranteeing none so its a case of not allowing it to cause any problems if it does happen.

mike

helen wrote:Do the silver/aluminium fabrics allow air through or would you find that in the mornings you have condensation inside the inner tent like you do in the little two man single skin tents sometimes due to the small area.

Dear Helen

My apologies. I was so knocked back that you had no knowledge of the silvered fabrics that I didn't read your piece properly or give it full consideration.
I was in a haberdashery emporium today (or are they all cloth houses now) who had sold a silvered fabric at one point. Alas they had no idea of technical specs and no longer carried it.
Do small tents have condensation problems because they are small or because they are almost invariably given nylon inner tents.
I have a four man tunnel tent from Vango (The replacement for the one holed on first visit to Dent) that does have condensation issues. Not big ones but condensation is discernible. I also have an older Blacks ridge tent circa 1985 still rip stop nylon but with a cotton inner tent. Never seen any evidence of condensation.
I don't know if the weave of cotton inner tents is looser and allows water vapour to escape while still being waterproof (a la Gore-Tex) So is it a tighter weave in the nylon that causes condensation or does the cotton just absorb a certain amount of moisture hence why your using it in PVC awnings?
Or perhaps both factors affect the outcome?
Would the cotton tent that the silvered fabric lined save me from condensation by wicking it up, or would the condensation still be on the surface of the PVC?
Whose to say, I need to have the thing made first. I need to find out about silvered fabrics.

Kevin.

Cotton inner tent's allow air through, you may still have had condensation on the inside of the flysheet on your small tent My main worry wouldn't be from condensation but if it isn't breathable (and it would be a small size to just fit the bed area) would you suffocate PVC isn't breathable but we do have vents in the dandy, would you need to vent the inner tent too? We also had condensation in one of our large tent's but it was extremely cold outside, the inner bed tent just stopped all of the drips from hitting us as it absorbed them. You really would need to look into this one Kevin as I am not sure about the silver type fabrics at all, it's one thing to line the Dandy walls leaving the vents uncovered but another to make an inner tent.

I would rather you stayed with us Kevin

helen wrote:Cotton inner tent's allow air through, you may still have had condensation on the inside of the flysheet on your small tent My main worry wouldn't be from condensation but if it isn't breathable (and it would be a small size to just fit the bed area) would you suffocate PVC isn't breathable but we do have vents in the dandy, would you need to vent the inner tent too? We also had condensation in one of our large tent's but it was extremely cold outside, the inner bed tent just stopped all of the drips from hitting us as it absorbed them. You really would need to look into this one Kevin as I am not sure about the silver type fabrics at all, it's one thing to line the Dandy walls leaving the vents uncovered but another to make an inner tent.

I would rather you stayed with us Kevin

Helen

How right you are about the condensation. Yes I do have condensation under the nylon it's just not discernible in the cotton inner tent. Yes definitely yes.
I'm not bothered about any woven fabric, but true if the silvered substance was like a foil or plasticised film then yes I can see your concern. I would of course not be coating the "curtain" face of the bed tents.
Re these silvered fabrics please feel to look up. All I've seen are substances like ironing board cover like fabric and either a foil? or a foil pre applied to rip stop nylon? These were just bulk supply details from sites like "Ali Baba" no application details.

I would rather you stayed with us Kevin

Not wishing to reserve an opinion on that till after the Christmas meet?

Kevin.

Yes I really would you rather stayed around

Having looked at Mikes insulated wall that he was going to test but it wasn't cold enough, I have to say it seems a far simpler solution to condensation issues. Your Dandy roof is already insulated and the solid wall at each bed end has an air gap so only the bat wing walls need attention, the white used also makes it look much brighter inside. Another plus is no sewing required Kevin

helen wrote:Yes I really would you rather stayed around

Having looked at Mikes insulated wall that he was going to test but it wasn't cold enough, I have to say it seems a far simpler solution to condensation issues. Your Dandy roof is already insulated and the solid wall at each bed end has an air gap so only the bat wing walls need attention, the white used also makes it look much brighter inside. Another plus is no sewing required Kevin

I was going to leave it till I had gathered a more complete picture, the other advantage being that by that time I recon I would have found out what your favourite tipple was and hence found the way to your heart (or your hangover) and seduced you into a little needlework. However having found out what Tent Valeting Services prices are like I'm good with that.
I don't want to do any of this and if the winter brings an insulated 5 for the right price all will be forgot. Only my sides are now beginning to split. If I do that(I would do it properly in phenolic coated plywood) I'll probably insulate, and if I do that I'm not sure I'd get my money back.

Also as I'm on my tod, unless I get lucky any company is likely to prefer modesty curtains, so it also kills multiple birds at once.

If you do find an insulated Dandy and need any curtains, modesty or otherwise then just let me know Kevin. No need to find my favourite tipple, your curtains would be wonky

If any one wants a sample of the table cover ime using pm me with your name and address and i will send a sample.its not like the normal felt backed stuff that you see.it can even be machined washed.

mike

Checked the other bed end walls today and would you believe they are all near enough the same size, so can get the insulation ordered and the other three cut,was asking about the magnets at work and one of the engineers said he had a block of it so would cut me 16, will have to wait on that.

I've also found these products, they should work in a Dandy, even if only under the beds etc as a cheaper alternative to the foil bubble stuff. I do have a small sample of each I can show at the Christmas meet.

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cazz wrote:I've also found these products, they should work in a Dandy, even if only under the beds etc as a cheaper alternative to the foil bubble stuff. I do have a small sample of each I can show at the Christmas meet.

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Looks like it would be good,have decided i will insulate the end boards but not under the bed,I dont feel from past experience anything is to be gained from it.

mike

It can't hurt to put something under the beds, I think we will go for the Insul bright stuff or something similar.

We've just returned from a weekend away near Blackpool.

Our '84 Dandy 4/5 has no insulation on the bat wings.

Under the beds we used tent foam sleeping roll up thingies - to insulate ouresleves from the elements.

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The Dandy's matress keeps the foam in place & prevents it from rolling up.

We experienced no condensation under the beds in the morning & warm & cosy at night!

They were purchased from BM's for £1.50 each

When we first got our Dandy, it had foam thingies under the bed and settee, we thought it was to add a little softness to the beds and removed them

I think it's a great idea now and at £1.50 each 4 would be plenty and only cost £6.

Finally got every thing pulled together have the other three sheets of table topper got 50 magnets from ebay and just bought 8mt of white 50mm wide ribbon to make the tabs from tomorrow should be cut out time for the panels then Nancy has the tabs to sew.
Bet we have a heatwave at Christmas

looks like it works,outside is 6c inside is 22c with 1500w convector heater,we have condensation on the batwing pvc but that's behind the insulation and can run down and away without causing any problems.It may mean we cant store the insulation in the dandy as it may need drying but will look at treating it with silicone water proofer on the back.

mike

seen the foil in the bed area
is that the bubble wrap with foil on both sides? fitted under a plain foam bed mattress? and on the 2nd pic is that the outside of the wall end?

reason for asking is i have found a roll of this stuff at work and thought its sitting there doing nothing but taking up shelf space.

would it make a difference to keeping the unit warm at night?

cheers
Tom

Grab that stuff and put it under your mattresses, it should help. we don't put anything on the end walls and it's always been fine. The reason many have something underneath the mattresses is to stop damp underneath them from when warm air hits the cold of the bed board, you may not get it and you certainly won't feel it through your mattress if you do. The end walls have an air gap but I personally have no experience of putting something on the end walls as we have always been warm enough.

Behind the bed side wall was really wet on packing up at Christmas.
I was thinking in terms of the window only to remind myself that the sides are only single skin.
Great logic winterise the front and back walls after removing the second layer from 40% of the roof. (one colour roofs were insulated for their entire lengths)
Didn't get round to feeling the back of the wall on the seat side. Will report back after this weekend.

Thought i would add my final conclusion about this on this thread as it has a fair bit of mixed talk on insulation,the conclusion after fitting it a second time is i would never be able to get it perfect its a lot better than i had it at Christmas and it works so when you consider the £600 price difference between mine and the real macoy at riva its a bargain and i have managed to do it with no special tools or skills which was a main aim.
Somewhere maybe on this thread Kevin was talking about a curtain type insulation i seam to remember and this is what i have, although it is close to the pvc,when erecting today the pvc got very hot in the sun but the insulation remained cool,so my own conclusion is cheap,effective,brightens the interior but could be neater